Latest Release: Giants & Monsters.
Label: Reigning Phoenix Music
Site: www.helloween.org
German power metal pioneers, Helloween, weathered the naysayers when their Pumpkins United project took flight. Shortly after, the decision to reunite with three lead vocalists, for their self-titled, statement bearing release, Helloween, looked superb on paper, but had some risks to mitigate. Those eggshells were not trodden on, and with a deft display of maturity in a notoriously insecure business, the seven-membered band toured harmoniously, and subsequently have cemented their newfound stability with their latest opus, and seventeenth studio album, the remarkable Giants & Monsters.
To their credit, the hallmarks of cheesy power metal are absent, with a judicious approach to virtuosity, and a clear command of songwriting. So, we recently spoke to the ever amiable, and self-admitted 80’s and 90’s equipment collector, co-guitarist Sascha Gerstner about all things Helloween, including the gear used to get their sounds, and musing on the brilliance of the successfully merger, that effectively contains a triple guitarist and triple vocalist line-up, without losing focus on the project at hand.
I’ve just listened to the album, after some email dramas, and it is fantastic.
Sascha Gerstner: Perfect. Well, you have the fresh impact on your mind.
It’s interesting there’s a lot of keyboards behind you, as there are some keyboard washes that add some depth to the album.
SG: Oh yeah, these are my ‘get to’ synthesisers when I record my demos. So, I have a little collection and a lot of more in the storage because I’m collecting old 80’s vintage synthesisers.
So, you’d probably remember Keyboard Magazine, all that kind of stuff, right?
SG: Yeah. I mean, synthesisers had a huge impact on me since I grew up in the 80’s, and I was always amazed at the sounds you can create with them. It’s kind of a hobby for me to play around with those, and sometimes I even can create song ideas that make it up on a Halloween album later. You transfer song ideas to the guitar and it’s inspiring for me to do sound design.
How much programming was on the album?
SG: Here and there. I mean, you can see here I have old vintage 80s effects. So, I did some vocal effects and stuff as well, and that was inspiring for our two producers: Charlie Bauerfeind and Dennis Ward. When I started out creating vocal effects for the album, they were adapting the sound design, and they like this to go into the direction of old vintage gear. They have character, and they make stuff sound different. Even a reverb that you wouldn’t hear obviously, on the album, will add something to the sound.
Indeed, and there’s that classic Eventide H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer you’ve got behind you.
SG: Yeah, that’s an H3000. Oh, wow. It’s kind of a hybrid rig I’m using here. You know, I have the Axe-Fx III [multi effects processor] which I use a lot for amplifier modelling. I have this old DBX [160A] compressor for that Michael Landau vibe for clean sounds. I then have the [Lexicon] PCM 70 [reverb], the H3000 and the Lexicon MX200. It’s all looped in, and I like the character of the sounds you can make with that.
That sound is rack reverb, and you don’t really hear it so much now. Today, a lot of music is processed, gated and compressed. There’s not that real sonic expanse.
SG: Right, right. But we wanted to have that on this album. I kind of wanted to have a red line with those kinds of things. If you listen closely, in a lot of songs, we have very atmospheric, clean guitars, and with those, you can hear it very well. It has that 80’s kind of vibe, in there, and you can recreate that with modern gear, but it never sounds the same.
No, definitely not. You’ve found some amazing sounds.
SG: Yeah, it’s just fun to do that and I guess it’s also the process that gives you a great feeling while you’re creating something.
So how did the songwriting process work this time around, given that this is effectively album number two of the full reunion or merger, if you like?
SG: Oh, man. This time we had a little bit more time, you know, after the tour, to come down a little bit. But I had some kind of writer’s block after the tour. I really needed a long time this time to come down and create. I had to start music as a hobby again. When you have an album on the whole world tour, sometimes you just fall into a dark hole where you just don’t like to play guitar or you don’t like to record because you have to kind of process everything that happened in the last years. I mean, we had a lot of impactful years there, we had a number one album. We played one of the last shows at Budokan in Japan. There were a lot of things happening for us, you know. I needed some time to process everything and then, at some point, I started playing guitar as a hobby again, without the pressure to write anything. It was just like, ‘okay, let’s fiddle around a little bit.’ I started creating sounds and stuff, and then with the sound design the first song ideas came up, you know. Of course, we always have a deadline in the band, where everybody has to deliver the demos. All of us have like home studios where we record our demos. So, at one point we just started, and we had this deadline with everybody somehow feeling the pressure and then you would look at, ‘okay, what kind of ideas do I have already and recorded?’ We played the demos to each other, to our management, and to our producers, and they then pick the songs that we are going to record.
Did the song “Universe (Gravity for Hearts)” require a lot of pre-production?
SG: No, that song actually was from beginning to the end, totally finished. It was like, ‘man, it was a birth that I was giving with this song,’ you know, and it took me a couple of days to connect all these parts together. Typically, how I write songs is I sing on my demos, programme all the drums, play all the instruments. So, if you get a demo from me, it’s almost at production level. So, there’s not that much space left. But of course, you want to have the vibe of each band member and there’s still a lot of freedom to express yourself. But the composing part is already done, even with choirs and orchestration, and even most of the guitar sounds you hear on the album were exactly the sounds I was using on my demo, because we really created that and I was already using the gear that I would use in the studio as well. Of course, I had parts where I was trying to play solos in the style of Kai [Hansen – vocals, co-guitarist] or Weiki [Michael Weikath, co-guitarist]. So, they know, ‘okay, this is my solo part and this is theirs,’ and then they would play their own solo. It was to have a little space for parts for them to know, ‘okay, there’s a solo for you and there’s another solo for you.’
You’ve been in the band long enough to be able to write for other guitar players.
SG: Well, for us, it comes naturally. We have so many strong characters in the band and almost everybody is writing songs, which is a big plus for me. I think that keeps our albums very interesting because you have different vibes throughout the album because of different songwriters. In most bands, you have like one or two people writing all the songs, and the other band members have to play what is laid out, but in Helloween, there’s some sort of controlled chaos, and that keeps it very exciting.
For the guitar solos, stylistically, Kai’s got the harmonic minor, exotic scale approach whilst Weikie is very much bluesier, whereas you’re scalar and precise. Is that correct?
SG: I would say, actually, from the core, we actually are pretty close in what we like. It’s not that there’s this huge difference in what we like harmonically, and tone. I think that we have like three guitar players with big tones. I would say you’re right about the blues, as Weiki has more of a vintage vibe, so to say. Kai’s playing is wild. He always has this wild energy when he’s playing, and probably I’m somewhere in between playing very melodic and technical at the same time. I try to combine that. So, I would say, I’m in the middle, combining both worlds. But maybe I’m wrong. That’s just how I feel it.
When you’re creating these pieces, is a level of diplomacy required?
SG: No, not really, everything for me is about the energy and the vibe. It’s important that the song is best represented in the end when it’s on the album. I can step back a lot, and I can make space for people. I think that’s the reason why I’m in the band for such a long time. You know, I can leave space for people, and I think that’s important.
Most bands struggle with just one vocalist. How do you cope with three?
SG: You know what, of course we are strong characters and like with every family, stuff comes up sometimes because especially when you’re on tour, you’re not in a good mood every day. Sometimes we have crazy travels and even crazier sleep or non-sleeping periods. So, of course you’re stepping on the feet of each other sometimes. But that’s normal and separate from what we do creatively and that’s untouched from what we want to achieve with the band. We’re smart enough to not struggle with that. Another thing that helps us, is that Andi [Deris – co-vocalist] and Michael [Kiske – co-vocalist] get along so well with each other, then also with the rest of the band. I have this huge friendship with Weiki; we never even fight about things. Never ever. When I joined the band, I felt really appreciated by the other guitar player, which helps a lot, so you’re not in this ego game of who’s going to be the bigger name or whatever. I knew that if you join a legendary band, you will never, never fill the shoes of someone who left before. Nobody ever did in any band. So, no matter what kind of creative guitar players, you know, from any band that, that fills in later in some legendary band, you can’t do that. It’s like you have to just appreciate each other and the same goes for the singers. There are obviously songs written for a style of singing. You mentioned “Universe (Gravity for Hearts)” before, that song was written for Michael Kiske’s voice. I couldn’t imagine Andi or Kai singing it. They can sing it, of course, but it’s so obvious for Kiske’s voice, you know. The same goes if I create a solo part in the beginning, such as the intro solo, and I knew instantly this solo must be played by Kai because of this wild energy. I wanted to hear that, and for me, it’s about being smart. Each one of us has their own abilities, and I think a band is the strongest when you combine the biggest abilities of each member to the same direction. That’s what I believe in. If you don’t want it, you have to be a solo artist.
On the previous album, the final track “Skyfall”, contained a reference to Rainbow Song. Did the band feel any temptation to put some sort of musical reference in this album at all?
SG: I don’t know if “Majestic” is a song that Kai was kind of creating on that, although it’s a totally different vibe. I don’t know if you want to make another long monster song that is continuing that kind of vibe. We’ve always had these long songs, we always had these monumental, epic songs. “Skyfall” had a big impact on the last album, of course, but I never heard anybody say, ‘hey, let’s write another “Skyfall”. So, if you’re in a band and you write albums, I used to say it’s kind of a snapshot of where you are creatively, and as individuals. You can plan stuff, but most of the time it goes wrong, and a lot of bands, even my band, had these periods where you were kind of forcing stuff and then it didn’t work. I believe the best things happen if everything falls together, like zeitgeist, if the loyalty of your fans and your creative output aligns perfectly, I believe you will have a successful album and a successful tour. So, it’s more or less it’s a snapshot of where you’re at in your life, even with lyrics and stuff. What I find funny, is that we don’t talk so much about lyrics in the band since everybody’s writing his song, but in the end, somehow the lyrics look like we had some concept together. I think that comes down to because we’re on tour for such a long time and we’re speaking about topics, influencing each other and where everybody is in his life and with his thoughts. I think this is very influential on our songs. So, when you have created an album, in the end, it’s a snapshot of what we’ve been talking about and what direction our brains go in.
Does that impact on how you approach backing vocals and the way that you might like to sing a particular line in a live performance?
SG: I see backing vocals more as a sound design tool, actually, that gives a main vocal line more impact. Then it’s all about the colouration of voices, like what kind of voice would give the right colour to that line.
The lead single “This Is Tokyo” reminded, to some degree of “Best Time”. Is there a correlation in those songs?
SG: Never thought about that but it makes sense. We always had these hard rock songs as well, and maybe that’s in the range of how we write the ‘lesser’ metal songs. We always had “Future World” or “I Want Out” against what are typically metal songs, right. If you take “I Want Out”, for example, it’s kind of like Gary Moore’s “Out in the Fields” you know, and I think it’s these kinds of rock songs that we always write. They have a certain vibe, but I don’t think that Andi was thinking, ‘oh, let’s write another “Best Time”’. Maybe it’s a tempo thing, I don’t know. I have to check if it’s like the same type of tempo.
It’s very short and sweet, and just does a job, kind of thing.
SG: Yeah, and it’s straight. So, this is a song that we wanted to have as a kick-off to say, ‘hello, we’re back. We’re coming in with an album,’ you know, and it’s a much lighter song. But we always had that. I don’t think that “Best Time” was a reference so far. I mean, there would have been so many songs that could be reference for that, I think.
Makes sense. By contrast, the ballad “Into the Sun” has got a lot of orchestration and arrangements. Is that something that you delved into intentionally going for strings?
SG: Well, from the beginning there was a lot of work we put into the song. We also have different variations and different mixes, such as another acoustic mix we did. Then we have this orchestration where we had a team from the States making a cinematic orchestration. We had this James Bond [theme song] vibe with the song. So, when Andi came up with the first version of his demo, the chorus instantly had this kind of James Bond vibe. We thought, ‘okay, let’s put that song more into a cinematic direction,’ you know, and so guitar is not so prominent in there. Years ago, I created this term, ‘Scorpion-esque’, you know, when we had something that was more on the rock side, a little bit off from our metal creations, and it has more of a vintage riff vibe, and even with the solo, it was like, ‘okay, let’s do something Scorpion-esque there.’ So, when I played the solo, I was thinking of Michael Schenker, and how would a Scorpions solo go for such a cinematic ballad? Right.
Yes, indeed.
SG: So sometimes we play with that, and of course, we all have our influences. Scorpions was one of our mutual influences in the band, growing up, so when we had a ballad like this, we thought of creating something epic, cinematic, and very simple, you know, not too complicated. Orchestration gives more depth to the song, I think, and makes it much, much deeper.
Speaking of a bit of bombast, Daniel [Löble – drums], used three drum kits on this album. That’s similar to the previous album, is that correct?
SG: Minimum of three kits. Yeah, I didn’t count it. We shared a studio in the beginning of the production because we switched. He recorded the first couple of songs and then I came in, and recorded guitars. So, I saw all these kick drums, toms and snares lined up and he had tonnes of them in the studio to create drum sounds for each song, so they really switched drum kits for different songs.
Does that mean tracking different kits to then go through during the mix?
SG: Yeah, they went through a lot. They were really checking out what song needs what kind of drum sound, you know, so they changed kick drums and snares a lot. So, that was a lot of effort. I think it’s nice that we’re able to produce that way, and we put a lot of time in there with everything, starting with drums. In my opinion a good sounding record starts with 50 percent of drums, so if you have everything well recorded but you have shitty drums, the record suddenly sounds shitty, you know. Drums are the foundation, a good drum sound is the foundation for the rest to add on top, and Charlie especially would say is maybe the only guy I know in Germany who can create such huge drum sounds, with the microphone placements he uses, and everything. So, I like that they put a lot of effort into the drum recordings.
Given your love of the 80’s gear, the LinnDrum machine almost took over, decades ago.
SG: On all the big hits. Yeah, yeah, and until a while ago I had an electronic Simmons drum kit.
How do you divvy up the guitar solos on tracks? Is up to the song writer?
SG: Each one of us is different, you know. I’m very open to that. You create parts where you already had someone in mind, so typically I would record guitar solos in their style. Weiki is mostly amazed how I can sound like them, you know, like I recreate their kind of playing to give them a little nod, ‘so, this could be your guitar solo if you want,’ but sometimes it just happens differently. We had a lot of times where Kai would say, ‘ah, I cannot find the guitar,’ or ‘it’s a little too short, I want to play both parts,’ but then he does it. That’s fine for me. So, sometimes you have someone in mind and then other people in the band are different. Some are very open to that, and others are very fixed on their demo, so they want to recreate that. Even with a song like from the last album, with “Best Time”, I had everything already in my mind. I was recorded a demo, and then Andi came up with ideas, but I’m always to collaborate. If you collaborate in a band, you come to things that you wouldn’t have otherwise done on your own, so there’s always a chance to get things better if you collaborate.
Some songs contain different rhythmic interludes and changes in pace. How much interaction is needed with the rhythm section nowadays or does it come about naturally?
SG: It’s super interesting because I was in touch a lot of the time, and what we always do is deliver our demos, and then Danny would do his drum arrangements for them. But what he did this time was he kind of muted all our drum layouts. He muted the drum layouts, was listening to the song, and then he started to play what he feels, and then sometimes there’s stuff that’s amazing where you think, ‘oh, I didn’t think of that.’ You know, it’s much better than what I had, and sometimes it’s something different that doesn’t fit so then we work it out. But there are a lot of creative things coming out. For example, in a song like “Hand of God” [written by Gerstner], he recently revealed to me that there is a shaker sound in there to give it a rhythmic pulse. He told me, ‘Yeah, I did that with my hands,’ because it was like, ‘yeah, this shaker. I like the shaker in the drum arrangement. There was no shaker. I did it with my hands on the snare.’ You know, stuff like that, and that kind of amazes me that with those kinds of creative inputs. So, you make a song grow, very quickly.
What got you into Blackstar amplifiers and Dean Guitars?
SG: Dean Guitars had a distribution in Germany in 2005, and they contacted me at some point. They asked me if I want to check out the guitars and they would love to work with me, and until then I didn’t have any big endorsements. So, they came up to me and the first guitar I played was a Cadillac, which is kind of sort of like a mixture between a Les Paul and Explorer. I instantly liked the instrument, they were really friendly, and they were also good image wise. I liked their image back then in that time because they started to also use the Internet very effectively, you know, and they had like a lot of signature artists, including Michael Shanker. So, I gave it a shot, and we worked out a great relationship over a long period of time. I played many of the guitars so it’s more or less a relationship thing that just developed. Same goes for Blackstar. At some point they just hooked me up. I checked them out and I thought, ‘okay, this sounds interesting.’ It’s a UK brand and I like UK amps, and I’m drawn to a UK guitar sound, so then we started working together. The first model they sent me was the 100 watts one.
One might have thought might you’d have pursued ENGL amplifiers?
SG: Yeah, I own ENGL amps from the late 80’s which I’m still using, which they don’t even have in their history. On the website there was one series that I really liked that nobody talks about.
It’s like a rectifier series [Mesa Boogie] they had, and I have one of their amps from that time because it sounds actually more British than what ENGL sounds like nowadays, I guess that’s why.
Finally, any chance of returning to Australia? It’s been a while.
SG: I hope so. It’s been 10 years, right? I always enjoy touring there, and it’s such a great crowd when we’re playing there.
Thanks very much for having a chat. It’s a great album.
SG: Thank you so much.
