Progressive metal is not always the home of the super shred-tastic, ultra technical explorations that alienate everyone but intense musos. It can encompass such a vast range of influences to allow appreciation from vast music genre extremes such as metalcore moshers to jazz or fusion instrumentalists. Bizarre as that sounds, when Between the Buried and Me finally found their way down to Australia on a mixed tour that included numerous regional dates, it was clear that they were moving into in a league of their own. Each night they potentially upstaged far more intense tour mates Bleeding Through.
Call them anything from technical metalcore to prog rock and it probably wouldn’t bother them. All up, they just deliver a tight and well rehearsed set. Having toured with bands like Dream Theater, Opeth and Dragonforce, it’s fair to say they know what demanding territory they may be getting themselves into, willingly or otherwise. So, when they were here earlier in the year, Australian Guitar’s Paul Southwell grabbed a chat with guitarists Paul Waggoner and Dustie Waring to explore their musical colours.
AG: What sort of preparation went into a piece like Colors?
PW: Prior to recording it we had never actually played the songs together, so we recorded it, had this album and then at that point had to say, ‘now we’ve got to try and play it live’. So we just practice. I think we write individually and then when we put it together everybody puts their two cents in to try to complement each other’s parts. Now it is like second nature. We can play ‘Colors’ all the way through without problems. We try to write linear pieces of music that flow.
DW: Sometimes our drummer [Blake Richardson] will go back and he’ll make it different for the better; maybe adding or taking away bits.
AG: The different styles you have must give you broader coverage for live gigs?
PW: We all have different influences and backgrounds in music so it just sort of came together that way and it gives us options. When we’re writing a song, we can just branch off into something totally bizarre that a normal metal band would never think to do. It opens up this whole other world for the song to go into and that is our point of pride. We can fit into any tour and that is really cool.
DW: Everybody listens to different things. I actually enjoy that aspect of the band because I would get bored with one style of music. If we want to have a part that sounds like Nicklecreek we can do it and not worry about our fans not liking us.
AG: What did you learn from playing with bands like Opeth and Dream Theater?
PW: We already knew them because we had all been fans and studying them for years. But for me, it was cool to see how Dream Theater functions in their professionalism. They are just so passionate about music and good at what they do. John’s [Petrucci – guitar] practice rig is better than most live rigs. He had a little rig in his dressing room that he would play for hours before the show and it sounded ridiculous.
DW: After that tour I became a huge fan because I had a chance to break it down and listen to it. But I never listened to prog stuff to get into guitar. I was more into 80’s metal like Skid Row and Dokken. Yeah, the wild guitar players, man.
AG: Your guitar rigs are quite similar. So, is it just the parts you’re playing that differentiates each player live?
DW: I guess so; we both have really different techniques. I’m really an aggressive player whereas Paul has more, ah, finesse.
PW: I’m more of the finesse side. I’m the brains whilst he is the brawn (laughs). We don’t use weird tones either. We just play different weird stuff.
AG: Are you both playing Ibanez and Paul Reed Smith [PRS] guitars?
PW: I play pretty much PRS now. Dustie plays both brands. I still like Ibanez but I kind of evolved into PRS. I like the classier look now whereas before I liked the more metal and streamlined, small necked guitars with small bodies. I’ve just kind of gotten into the bigger guitar. I feel like the PRS is more versatile.
DW: I’ve always wanted a PRS but they were too expensive. I like the PRS better but I have a back problem so Ibanez is just perfect for me ‘cos they’re really light, play really well, sound great and stay in tune [tuned to C sharp].
AG: What is it like playing to kids who don’t know the 80’s metal references?
PW: Yeah, we talk about that. It is interesting how the influences trickle down.
DW: I didn’t grow up in the 80’s. I’m pretty young (both laugh).
PW: A young kid will come up to us and say, ‘you’re my favourite guitar player’ and I want to sort of shake them to ask, ‘have you ever heard of Steve Howe [Yes] or any of those old guys that I kind of learned from like John Petrucci?’. I’m sure a lot of kids have no idea who they are. I feel like we are trying to carry the torch and bring the shred to the younger generation and get them to listen to Dream Theater, Yngwie or Dokken.
DW: I feel like a lot of people don’t have that favourite player thing anymore, they kind of just like a band. When I was growing up I had a few guitar players I was obsessed with, you know what I mean.
PW: There are not many modern day guitar heroes. Now you’ll see Mark Tremonti [Creed /Alter Bridge] or newbers that can’t play (laughs). I feel like we are on the rise, we are not going be chewed up and dropped down. We are steadily creeping up and for us it is about longevity. We’ll just keep doing what we’re doing and hope for the best.
AG: The whole industry is changing. The way music is distributed is changing.
PW: I think it is cool because bands are going to start having more control over how their music is released. So, you’re going to see a more artistic side of music. In the past it has just been labels putting out CDs, assembly line style. Now, you’ve got bands that aren’t even going to sign to a label but are just going to release their stuff however they want and license it to distributors. That’s kind of cool and for us, we’re excited ‘cos I think it is going to offer more freedom and you’re not held by the balls by a record label.
AG: Do you think some of the older acts you’ve met have cottoned onto it?
PW: I think there is still a group of people that think you have to sign a record contract but it’s a different mentality. They need to feel validated being on a label whereas I don’t give a sh*t about it.
DW: I aspire to be more like Govt. Mule than Fall Out Boy with a big star presence. Govt. Mule are a bunch of old dudes that kick ass and want to jam and can sell out a huge place. They enjoy playing and don’t care about being on the TV.
AG: I suppose touring is the way to do it. That gets rid of the poseurs and dead wood.
PW: It is the only way. If you’re in a heavy band and you don’t tour you’re not going to make a cent. It’s a blue collar job these days. You have to tour your ass off and work your ass off or you’re not going to get anywhere. It is as simple as that. Yeah and like you say, people start bands and they don’t realise what they are getting into so they just drop off pretty quick. ‘Oh, you mean I’ve got to tour eight months of the year?’ So it filters them out.
AG: What sort of effects are you using? Is it overdrive mainly from the amp?
PW: Yeah, I just use my amp distortion.
DW: I use my amp distortion but also use an overdrive pedal to give it that little extra. I did use a Tube Screamer but now use a BB pre-amp by Exotic Effects. It is smoother and not quite as abrasive.
PW: Other than that we just use delays and reverbs. I’ll bust a wah pedal out from time to time and a noise gate.
AG: Do your guitar rhythms need a noise gate?
PW: Ah, digital recording technology (laughs). You’ve got to have a noise gate. We can play all of our stuff but that doesn’t mean we don’t utilise some digital editing on our records. But there are definitely bands that are out there right now, touring and making a lot of money that can’t even play, you know, but they’ve put out albums that sound good just ‘cos of a good engineer and some fancy software.
DW: There is not much soul in music anymore.
PW: Big studios charge outrageous amounts of money but are basically out of business now as everybody is recording in their basements, including us.